Charcoal + Microbes, No Deep Hole: Lava to Soil in 6 Months

3:27:08 At that time in Tanzania, Japan's JICA brought in a lot of money and planted trees to green the desert. So in Tanzania — Japan? I think it's a Japanese foreign aid organization. They brought in lots of trees, plants to grow trees. But how did they plant the trees? They dug down (60 to 70 cm).

그런데 그때 그 탄자니아에 일본의 JICA(자이카)가 돈을 많이 가져와서 사막을 녹화시킨다고 나무를 심었어요. 그런데 나무를 심을 때 어떻게 심었냐 하면 (60~70cm) 파고

3:28:05 So when they were planting the tree, they dig 60 to 70 cm and then plant the tree like that. And they put fertilizer in here (at the bottom). This is how they'd tell you to plant fruit trees in Hawaii now. Probably in Hawaii, they plant the tree that way. And then they tell you to water here. So when you water, does the water sink, or go up? So when you give water to the tree, is the water going down or up? It goes down. The water comes down here.

그리고 여기다 거름을 넣은 거예요. 이거는 지금 하와이에서 과수나무 심을 때 이렇게 심으라고 할 거예요. 그리고 여기다 물을 주라는데 그럼 물을 주면 물이 가라앉아요, 위로 올라가요? 그러니까 내려간단 말이에요. 이리로 내려온단 말이에요, 물이.

3:28:55 The water comes down, but here it's hard, so the water pools. So water goes down but right here is very hard so water is going to reside at the bottom right here. But since you dug a hole here, the soil here is soft. So they dig the hole here, so the top is very soft. And the soil down here is hard soil. And the bottom soil is very hard. So the water goes down and pools here. Now, the tree you planted — its roots — the roots ought to go down, but (…)

그러면 물이 내려오는데 여기는 단단하니까 물이 고이지. 그런데 여기 구덩이를 팠으니까 여기 땅은 유연하지. 여기 땅은 단단한 땅이란 말이야. 그럼 이 물이 내려가서 여기 고이잖아. 그럼 나무를 심었는데 그 뿌리가, 뿌리가 내려야 되는데 (…)

3:29:40 (…) they go down, and they come up. So, because of the water at the bottom, and then the roots are going to go up or down? Do they go down? The water's on top, and they go down? Hm. The water is on top right now. So they water it. You watered here, right? From the top they water, so this roots gonna be go up or down. (The roots) should go down to where the water is, but since all the water was given (on top), the water is on top, right?

(…) 내려가고 올라가고 있어. 내려가요? 물이 위에 있는데 내려가? 응. 여기다 물을 줬잖아. (…) 물이 있어서 내려가야 되는데 이 물을 다 (위에) 줬기 때문에 물이 위에 있잖아.

3:30:27 So are the roots going up, or down? Up. Because you need to water at the bottom, at the inside. Because if you water from the top, the root will follow the water, it goes up. The roots come up and dry out, and so they all die. Because the roots are all up, the roots start to get dry, so they start to die. These roots don't go down; they come up and dry to death. And here's another problem: since there's water down here, at first the roots go down well, because the water's there.

그러면 뿌리가 위로 올라가고 있어? 내려가고 있어? 올라가요. 뿌리가 올라가 가지고 말라 버리니까 이제 다 죽는 거예요. 그런데 이 뿌리가 내려가지 않고 위로 올라가서 말라 죽잖아. 그런데 또 한 가지 문제가 뭐냐 그러면은 여기가 이제 물이 있으니까 처음에는 뿌리가 물이 있으니까 잘 내려가잖아.

3:31:16 But the water drains away. As it drains, the water level drops. Then in a dry spell, those roots dry up and die. So the reason that they dry and die: because we put the water, but then this root is going up To follow the water, the roots are all dry, so water cannot go down and then they start to dry out. When there is water, the water will go down, but there is no root, it's all dried out. And because the soil was dug, it's soft. And because the soil is soft, the soil starts to go down. Being soft, it settles.

근데 물이 빠져요. 물이 빠지니까 물이 내려가지. 가무니까 그게 말라 죽는 거예요. 그리고 흙을 팠기 때문에 부드럽잖아. 부드러우니까 내려앉는다고.

3:32:11 It sinks, and the tree goes down into it. So because this papaya is starting to sink, even this tree is starting to sink. These trees all (sank). Do you think a papaya or a mango tree has a nose, or not? Do you think a papaya or any fruit tree, do you think they have a nose or not? Do you think they have a nose like a person's, or not? Do you think they have a nose like a human, those trees? Breathing nose. Because the soil is sinking, there's their breathing nose, and the nose sinks in the soil. Now, if the tree sinks into the ground, its nose gets (blocked).

이게 가라앉아 가지고 이 속으로 들어가, 이 나무가. 이 나무도 다 (…) 버렸어요. 파파야나 망고나무가 코가 있다고 생각해? 없다고 생각해? 이 코가 사람과 같은 코가 있다고 생각해요? 없다고 생각해요? 그런데 땅에 나무가 가라앉으면 코가 (막히잖아).

3:33:09 Does the tree die or live? It dies. So the tree live or die? And they put fertilizer in here, right? So in the top of the tree, they put the fertilizer at the bottom. Here in Hawaii now, when you plant a tree, do they tell you to put fertilizer in first, or just plant it? In Hawaii, do they tell you to put the fertilizer at the bottom or not? Yes, they say put fertilizer in and plant. Then the water you give goes down and pools here, right? Then this fertilizer

나무가 죽어, 살아? 죽어. 그런데 여기다 거름을 넣잖아. 지금 하와이에서 나무 심을 때 거름 넣고 심으라고 해? 그냥 심으라고 해? 네, 거름을 넣고 심으라고 하죠. 그러면 여기 주는 물이 내려갔으니까 여기 고였잖아. 그러면 이 거름이

3:33:56 soaks it up and rots. So what's going to happen to this fertilizer? Is it going to rot, or be received by the plant? It's going to rot. When it rots, does oxygen come out, or carbon dioxide? So when it's starting to rot, is there going to be oxygen come out, or carbohydrates going to come out? Carbon dioxide comes out. And when carbon dioxide comes out, do we So, when the [carbon dioxide] comes out, live, or die?

(물을) 흡수하고서 썩어서 그래서 썩으면 산소가 나와, 탄산가스가 나와? 탄산가스가 나온다 말이야. 탄산가스 나오면 우리가 살아, 죽어?

3:34:43 are we going to live or not? Carbon dioxide suffocates. There is no oxygen. So, they die. They cannot breathe. On top of that, the nose is blocked. So does that tree die, or live? So they have this carbon dioxide at the bottom, and then there's a nose that will plug up, so they're going to die. They're going to die or not? Those people said this is a scientific planting tree and actually they're killing the tree. They plant this way and call it scientific farming.

탄산가스는 질식을 하거든요. 더군다나 코가 막혔지. 그럼 그 나무가 죽어, 살아? (…)으로 이렇게 심으면서 그걸 과학농법이라고 얘기하고 있잖아요.

3:35:31 So is planting the way they taught you sane, or not? So do they have a brain or not? So if you plan like this, you are kind of out of your mind. So if the people here have been planting like this, they're all out of their minds. Do you all think so? Then shouldn't you be in a psychiatric hospital instead of here? Then don't stay here and go to a psychiatric hospital.

그러면 그렇게 가르친 대로 심는 게 정신이 있는 거예요, 없는 거예요? 그러니까 여기 오신 분들이 이렇게 심고 왔다 그러면 다 정신 나간 사람들이지. 다 그렇게 생각해요? 그럼 여기 와 있지 말고 정신병원으로 가야 될 것 아니야.

3:36:16 I'm sorry I talk like this. But what can I do if it's true? So you need to have a correct way to know and then farm. So you have to know this rightly, and then farm. So what did I do, with the ground hard here? I didn't water. I took five lumps of hardwood charcoal about this big and set them on top here. So in Tanzania, what I did was with biochar, five biochar this small, put it on top. Without watering. And that much…

그런데 사실이면 어떻게 해? 그래서 이러한 걸 바로 알고 농사를 지어야 되는 거예요. 그런데 나는, 여기 단단해서 어떻게 했냐 그러면, 물을 주지 않고 숯덩어리, 참숯 요만한 걸 다섯 개를 갖다가 여기다 얹은 거야. 그런데 그만큼은…

3:37:02 Even in the desert, clouds pass over now and then, so there's moisture. Even in the desert, the clouds pass by, the moisture, there is moisture. And because there's moisture, that vapor, again and again, So that moisture, because of the biochar is there, the moisture is starting to soak into the biochar. gets drawn in (to the charcoal). And then another thing he did was he put some indigenous microorganism number four, IMO4; he put it on top of that biochar. And as I set the charcoal down, here I put — what was it — (IMO4), I scattered that here.

사막에도 가끔 구름이 지나가면서 수증기가 있다고. 그럼 수증기가 있기 때문에 그 수증기가 수시로 빨려 들어가 그리고 숯덩어리를 놓으면서 여기다 뭐냐면, (토착미생물 4번) 그거를 갖다 여기다 뿌린 거예요.

3:37:48 Microbes: their moisture is 70%. So microorganism moisture level is around 70%. And because this charcoal holds moisture, the microbes move into the charcoal and set up house. Because biochar now has moisture, the microorganisms start to live in the biochar. So the microbes spread all around here, So there is moisture and there's lots of microorganisms residing; it became a pond, and it's as good as having a reservoir at 70% moisture. a microorganism pond.

그러니까 미생물은 수분이 70%야. 그런데 이 숯덩어리에 물기가 있기 때문에 미생물이 숯덩어리 속에 들어가서 살림을 차려. 그렇게 해서 이 주위에 미생물이 번지니까 수분 70%의 저수지가 있는 거나 마찬가지 아니야.

3:38:35 So even in a drought there's moisture, and this tree grows well. Even when they are having a drought, because microorganisms are residing in that area, their plant grows really well. So which is science: setting five lumps of charcoal on top, or pouring water in? So which one is more scientific: put the biochar on the top of the ground, or just pour the water in the ground? That's wisdom.

이제 그렇게 되니까 가뭄에도 물기가 있으니까 이 나무가 잘 자라는 거예요. 그러면 숯덩어리를 위에 5개 놓아주는 게 과학이여? 물을 퍼붓는 게 과학이에요? 그게 지혜예요.

3:39:23 Scholars say, 'water it,' 'put in fertilizer.' Following what they teach isn't science. Taking this wisdom as the base, the tree's (…) — growing it with care for that: that is science. No, I'm sorry. The scientists put the fertilizer and dig the soil deep. That's not scientific. They put the biochar and the microorganisms, with wisdom: wisdom, that's the scientific way. True scientific way.

학자들이 물 주어라 거름 넣으라 하고서 가르치는 거에 쫓는 게 과학이 아니라 이 지혜를 바탕으로 해서 나무의 (…)을 배려해 가면서 길러 놓은 것이 과학이라고.

3:40:09 Got it? So now, in Mongolia — Mongolia — I'm planting trees over an enormous area in Mongolia. So right now he plants lots of trees in the Mongolian desert. The wind that blows from the Mongolian desert goes all the way to Europe. So the wind from the Mongolian desert goes to the Europe area too. The European Union supported Mongolia and set up a research institute: a desert-greening research institute. So in Europe, some of the organizations made a research center in Mongolia.

알았습니까? 그래서 지금 내가 몽골에, 몽골 몽골에 엄청난 면적의 나무를 심고 있어. 그런데 몽골 사막에서 부는 바람이 유럽까지 가는 거예요. 유럽연합이 몽골도 지원을 해가지고 연구소를 만들었다, 사막녹화연구소를.

3:41:00 But the institute doing research with Europe's money But the European research center, they only just research, research, never stop research, only research. just keeps on researching, and it never ends. But I went and planted trees, right away. But when he went there, I just plant the tree right away. And the trees do well. Why? And the tree grows so well. Because I put the biochar on top. And when you raise seedlings — compared with the place you'll plant them out —

그런데 유럽의 돈을 가지고 연구하는 연구소는 계속 연구만 하다 끝이 안 나. 그런데 나는 가서 나무를 심었어, 바로. 나무가 잘 살거든요. 왜 그랬냐? 그리고 묘를 갖다 심을 때, 심는 자리보다는

3:41:49 should you raise the seedlings in poor soil, or in rich soil? So when you plant seedlings, do you plant in the poor soil or rich soil? Which one do you have to plant the seedlings? One person says poor soil, and lots of people (…) Poor. A seedling raised in rich soil is a daughter raised in a rich house. So the one with rich soil, the seedling growing, that is like compared to rich, the daughter growing in the rich family.

척박한 땅에다 묘를 길러야 돼? 비옥한 땅에다 묘를 길러야 돼? 한 사람은 척박한 땅에 (…) 많은 사람들은 (…) 비옥한 땅에다 심어 키운 묘는 부잣집에서 자란 딸이지.

3:42:37 If a daughter raised in a rich house marries into a poor house, what happens? So the daughter growing up in a rich family, if she goes and marries into a poor family, what's going to happen? She is having a struggle. Generally, isn't a poor family's daughter who marries into a rich family happier than a rich family's daughter who marries into a poor one? So the poor family's daughter married to a rich family, is that better?

부잣집에서 자란 딸이 가난한 집으로 시집가면 어떻게 되겠어? 대개 부잣집 딸이 가난한 집으로 시집가는 것보다는 가난한 집 딸이 부잣집으로 시집가는 게 더 행복한 거 아니에요?

3:43:27 (…) Yes or no? Yes. So when you all So when you have all these seedlings, tomato and the other crops, raise seedlings of tomato, papaya, paprika and so on, if you raise them in a poor house and marry them off into a rich house, they don't get disease. if you grow them in the poor soil condition and then move to rich soil, they do really well. So now you know how to raise seedlings, right? That is wisdom.

(…) 예스 or 노? 예스. 그래서 여러분들이 토마토나 파파야나 파프리카나 이런 묘를 기를 때 가난한 집에서 묘를 길러가지고 부잣집으로 시집을 보내면은 병이 안 생겨. 그럼 묘 기르는 법 알았지요? 그것이 지혜입니다.

3:44:16 So, Hawaii has lots of volcanic soil, So, you know, we come to Hawaii. What is Hawaii's land? It was made by volcanic eruptions, so there's a lot of rock. and so we have lots of volcanic rocks on our ground. So if you want to turn Hawaii's land into rich soil, that rock has to be crumbled, quickly. So if you want to make a rich soil, we need to break all these lava rocks. To do that, scatter some charcoal, small pieces of charcoal, and scatter IMO4 over it, and won't it all become soil?

그러니까 우리가 말이죠, 이 하와이에 다니잖아. 하와이 땅이 뭐예요? 화산 폭발해서 만든 땅이기 때문에 바위가 많지. 그러니까 이 하와이에 땅을 갖다가 비옥한 땅으로 만들려고 하면 저 바위를 빨리 부스러뜨려야 되지요. 그러니까 그렇게 하려고 하면 숯덩어리, 조그만 숯덩어리를 좀 뿌려 놓아주고 거기다 토착미생물 4번을 뿌려 놓아주게 되면 다 흙이 될 것 아니야.

3:45:01 So what you need to do is put some biochar and IMO4 on top of that lava rock, and then it starts to break down and make the soil. So at the University of the Nations in Kona, I said I'd turn their rock into a field for them. So he made it at the University of the Nations; there's lots of lava field. I'd done it before. He made a field for them with that biochar and IMO4. And after scattering the IMO, what did I do? I sowed corn. Corn seed.

그래서 코나의 열방대학에 바위를 갖다가 내가 밭으로 만들어 줄게 (그랬어). 경험이 있다고. 그런데 IMO를 뿌리고 난 다음에 뭐를 했냐면 옥수수를 뿌렸어. 옥수수 씨를.

3:45:48 So after he put the biochar and IMO4, he planted the corn seed. Then I watered freely and didn't let it dry out. So then they watered them. They didn't let them dry. So the corn sprouted. So they started to sprout. So they sprout and then they grow about one foot and then dry and then die. At about 30 cm, it dried up and died. He is going to explain the nutritive cycle tomorrow, but there is a Type 2 (…) I'll (go over it) tomorrow, but

그러고서 물은 마음대로 주고 말리지 않고 그렇게 했더니 옥수수 싹이 나온 거예요. 30cm 정도 되니까 말라 죽는 거예요. 내일 (…)겠지만

3:46:35 there's what's called the Type 2 feed of the nutritive cycle, for the vegetative growth stage. So after he put the Type 2 nutrient on, in one week it grew So the corn had sprouted. It grew to about 30 (cm) and wouldn't grow any more. So I gave it the Type 2 treatment, and in one week it was 1 m 20.

영양생장기, 영양주기 2형 거름이라는 게 있다고. 그렇게 해서 옥수수가 싹이 났잖아. 그게 한 30(센티) 정도 자랐어. 안 자라는 거야. 그래서 2형 처리를 해줬더니 일주일 만에 1m 20이잖아요.

3:47:27 Oh, 1 meter and 20 centimeters. How much did it grow? 1 meter 20. Oh! 1 meter 20 centimeters. 3 feet and 20 centimeters. 1 meter 20 centimeters. 4 feet. So they put them down on the ground. So I knocked down the 1 m 20 cm corn. So after they lay them down, they plant another corn seed. After knocking it down, I sowed corn seed again, right on top of that corn. So in one week later, it grew about 80 centimeters. About a week later it started growing, and it grew to about 80 cm.

얼마나 자랐다고요? 1미터 20. 오! 1미터 20센티미터. 1미터 20센티. 그래서 1m 20cm 된 걸 쓰러뜨렸어요. 그거 쓰러뜨린 다음에 그 옥수수 위에다가 옥수수 씨를 또 심었어. 그래가지고 그것이 일주일쯤 지나니까 자라기 시작을 해가지고서 한 80센티 정도 자랐어.

3:48:27 Then I gave it the Type 2 treatment again, and it shot up to 1 m 50. So then they feed them with the Type 2 nutrient and it grew 1 meter 50 centimeters. And I knocked it down again. And then they laid down again. Then that became fertilizer, and from then on everything just grew. So after then it became food, fertilizing the soil, then everything started growing. And so, after six months, 3 cm (of soil) had been made. So after 6 months, the soil developed about 3 cm.

거기서 다시 2형 처리를 해주니까 1m 50 올라가는 거예요. 그리고 다시 쓰러뜨렸습니다. 그랬더니 그게 거름이 돼서 그다음부터는 그냥 막 자라는 거예요. 이렇게 해서 6개월이 지나니까 (흙이) 3cm가 만들어진 거예요.

3:49:21 I have to turn it off. Once that happened, earthworms appeared in the 3 cm of soil, So, after this 3 centimeters of soil is up here, and all the worms and the microorganisms are microbes came, and the rock just crumbles away. thriving in there, and then the little rocks starting to make soil. But by nature's weathering and (…), it takes 200 years to make 1 cm of topsoil.

이제 그렇게 되니까 3cm 흙에 지렁이가 생기고 미생물이 생겨가지고 바위가 그냥 부슬부슬해지는 거예요. 그런데 자연의 풍화작용과 (…)에 의해서 표토가 1cm 만들어지는데 200년이 걸리는 거예요.

3:50:06 So in the nature with the wind and the rain and everything, in 200 years, only one centimeter of soil is up here. So 3 cm was made in six months, you see. In six months, 600 years' worth — that's what we had the microbes do. So in six months, we made a three centimeter soil. So it's like 600 years' worth of soil has appeared. So the microorganism work is way, way much better than scientific way. So the work microbes do is far, far

그럼 6개월 동안에 3cm가 만들어졌으니까 말이지. 6개월 동안에 600년이 이런 거를 갖다가 미생물로 이루게 해 놓은 거예요. 그래서 미생물이 하는 일은 사람이, 학자가 연구하는 일보다 훨씬

3:50:55 bigger in scale than anything people, scholars, research. So you can make lava rock into soil; it will take only six months, with the corn and the microorganisms. This volcanic bedrock of Hawaii — turning bedrock into soil can be done in six months. How much biochar for how many? (to Cho) They're asking how much charcoal to put in. How much charcoal should be put in? Say your question. You only put it in once, when you first plant. You only use one time in the beginning?

규모가 커. 이 하와이의 화산, 그 암반 암반을 흙으로 만드는데 6개월이면 만들어 줄 수가 있어. 숯을 얼마나 많이 넣어야 되는지 물어보시죠. 숯을 얼마나 많이 넣어야 돼요? 처음 심을 때만 넣는 거요.

3:51:42 What kind of mass over what area? Can you save your questions? Right after. Yeah. (to Cho) I told them: questions later. Oh, oh. Ouch. So what does this tell you? So that means that even if you work so hard, you cannot compare with microorganisms or However hard a person works, they can't do the work that microbes or earthworms do. earthworms their work. So if all of Hawaii's rocky fields were turned into soil, would Hawaii get rich, or not?

(…)라고 했어요. 나중에 질문을. 그러니까 이건 무슨 얘기냐 그러면은 사람이 아무리 부지런히 일을 해도 미생물이나 지렁이만큼 일을 못한다는 말입니다. 그럼 하와이의 암석의 밭이 다 흙으로 만들어진다면 하와이가 부자가 되겠어, 안 되겠어?

3:52:32 So if you can turn all this lava into soil, is Hawaii going to be rich? You should be able to say, 'I live in a rich house.' So, I am living in a rich home. Can you say it in English? Ayu? Eō? Imua! Imua! (a call-and-response cheer with the room) Eō. Eō. I thought you said it in (…). Eō is better.

'나는 부잣집에서 산다' 그렇게 해야 되지. 아유? 아유? 에오? 에오? 이모와! 이모와!

3:53:18 Eō. This is the spirit of natural farming. That is the natural farming spirit. After dinner we come back here again. Right, let's eat, and

이게 자연농업의 정신이야. 그럼 식사하고